Rob Frankel in his November 2008 victory over Bobby Pacquiao at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, CA.
Pugilism & The Pen (P&TP) sat down with “Red Hot” Rob Frankel for an in-depth interview on Thursday, May 21, 2009. Frankel had recently decided to break ties with his hitherto career-long promoter, Steve Mestas, at Airtight Boxing. The interview was copious in nature, beginning with an introduction into the career of Rob Frankel (27-9-1, 4 KOs), some of his noteworthy fights, and the circumstances surrounding his recent signing with Delgado Promotions.
What follows is an unedited, comprehensive transcript of the approximately 50 minute interview held at 7 PM in Delgado’s Boxing & Martial Arts Gym.
P&TP: Thanks, Rob for taking the time to sit down with Pugilism & The Pen. I wanted to start out by asking you some general questions about your career, all your different fights, and then we can get into what transpired with Airtight Boxing and why you are now with Delgado Promotions.
Rob Frankel: Okay. Sounds good.
P&TP: First, I want to ask what got you interested in boxing and when did you start going to the gym?
Frankel: Well, boxing wasn’t really in my path, you know. I was 23-years-old when I started boxing. I knew nothing about it. I was sitting at a bar, drinking some beers, smoking cigarettes – I was smoking about a pack a day. Anyway, I was at a bar when somebody asked me if I wanted to buy tickets to a fight club, and just being the person that I was back then, I was always fighting on the streets, back then. So, I told him that I wanted to fight, and he said, “Okay. Be at the Ogden Theater.” So, I showed up there on a Thursday – and this guy had talked to me on Tuesday – I smoked a cigarette into the ring, put my gloves on, and got my butt kicked thirty seconds later [laughter]. You know, I did it for fun and didn’t think it was going to be anything like it is, you know, right now. I went home and smoked cigarettes, didn’t really think anything of it. But I did six more of those [fight club bouts] and I won those six. But I was still smoking, but I was training though. Then, I went pro September 26, 2003.
P&TP: So, you had no real amateur experience?
Frankel: Right. These were all fight club fights. No amateur sanctioning, no commissioner, you were basically matched with anybody. I fought guys twenty pounds heavier than me. Yeah, I didn’t do any sanctioned amateur competitions. I didn’t do anything with USA Boxing. I kind of just took everything as it came. Steve Mestas asked me, “Do you want to go pro? I have a fight for you in two weeks.” And he noticed that I was training hard, so he gave me a month, and I ended up fighting a guy who was 3-0 my first fight. Hector Munoz. It was a good first round. I did really good. I bloodied his nose. He was 3-0 with 3 knockouts, he was a big guy, and it was my first fight, so I really didn’t know too much. I thought I won the first round. Then, the second round came along, and I didn’t have my mouthpiece put in. I got hit, I dropped my hands, and I looked around to say, “I don’t have my mouthpiece in,” and then boom. The next thing you know I’m on my ass.
P&TP: Wow. Rough way to start off your career, but you obviously have come a long way since then.
Frankel: Yeah. A lot of hard work, man.
P&TP: Would you say that turning pro and boxing really straightened your life out and instilled a work ethic in you?
Frankel: It did. Definitely. It changed my life in many aspects and a lot of good things have come from it; and there are things in my life outside of boxing that I am still learning and going through right now. But, in terms of being a person, a strong person, a caring person and being able to deal with things…Boxing has helped me out a lot.
P&TP: Growing up as a kid, did you have any boxing heroes that you looked up to or wanted to emulate?
Frankel: When I was a kid there was Mike Tyson and that was it. That was the only time I ever heard about boxing in my family, in my life. There was nothing else. But, there was no boxing in my life, ever, as a kid.
P&TP: Okay. So now that we’ve gone over how you got into the fight game, I want to talk a little bit about the year 2005. You were extremely active that year. You fought nine times in 2005, and two of your bouts were against current top contenders in the junior welterweight division, Lamont Peterson and Dmitriy Salita. You had Salita down in the first round. What do you recall about 2005 in general, and about those two opponents in particular?
Frankel: It was a good year, but those two fights were a bad finish. Peterson was in September and Salita was in December. Both fights were kind of last second. Especially with Lamont Peterson. I got a phone call Wednesday night, flew out Thursday, was there [Little Rock, Arkansas] on Friday, weighed in on Friday [146 pounds], and fought Saturday. And I had just fought the week before. I fought Art Medina and won a decision, but my nose was broken the week before the Medina fight in the gym. So, I fought twice with a broken nose. But, the Peterson fight, you know, I really got my butt kicked. I didn’t get hurt or beat up or mangled or anything like that, he [Peterson] was just really quick, really fast, and he’s just a really good fighter. He is really good. For the level I was at, you know, he took it to me. And I didn’t have what it took. You know, I had the courage. It was on ESPN and Teddy Atlas kept noticing that I had good fundamentals, you know, that I was moving my head and wasn’t just being a target. And he [Teddy Atlas] saw that I was tough. In fact, Teddy Atlas even said it three times: “Tough, tough, tough Frankel.” But I just didn’t have what it took that night. Maybe if I had some training, if I had some notice and not just two days, I don’t know. But that is kind of some of the things that me and Steve Mestas did. I don’t blame it [the loss to Peterson] on Steve. But, yeah, the Peterson fight was a tough fight.
P&TP: And what do you remember about the Salita fight?
Frankel: Salita [Frankel rubs his hands together and leans back in his chair]. Hmmm….that fight [grinning]. I had him down in the first round, and I felt like, uh; look, Dmitriy Salita is a good fighter. Salita is probably one of the best fighters that I have fought. But, as far as beating me? I don’t think Salita could beat me. I didn’t think he could beat me that night, but he had all his fans there [The Grand Ballroom in New York, NY]. But I loved every second of that fight and I thought I was doing great. I was doing really well. Steve Smoger was the referee, I think, and that was awesome to see a guy like that because you don’t get to see him too many times. Although now, I’ve seen him a few times after that. But, Smoger even said, “Hey, man that was a good fight you had. I thought you might have won it.” But, it could have gone either way. It was one of those fights where if you don’t go the extra, extra, extra mile, especially in Salita’s backyard, you are kind of going to get the short end of the stick. I thought I got the short end of the stick that night, but I also think that I proved a point that night. Salita, of course, was undefeated and I had four losses, but I put on a show that night. I had Jewish people coming up to me saying, “I love you!” But I get that after almost every fight I have. After every fight I have people telling me how great the fight was. When I fought Bobby Pacquiao I had Filipinos handing me their babies [laughter]. It’s always like that…It’s always “fight of the night” when I fight. You saw when I fought Ricardo Dominguez at Mile High Throwdown III….that was a good fight.
P&TP: It was, and I want you to talk about that Dominguez fight a bit more in a minute. But, piggybacking off of my last two questions, currently Lamont Peterson is the interim WBO junior welterweight titlist, and Salita is the WBA’s mandatory to fight the winner of the Andreas Kotelnik – Amir Khan fight. Since you did some sparring with Mike Alvarado in preparation for your fight with Ricardo Dominguez, which we will get to in a second, what would you say to Alvarado, now that you are stable mates, about Peterson and Salita? These are guys that Alvarado could potentially meet in the future.
Frankel: I would tell Mike that he could take out Dmitriy Salita. He [Salita] is really easy to hit. Now, I don’ know if Salita has changed, because you have to remember that I fought him awhile back now, but he was easy to hit. I would tell Mike that I think he could take Salita out because Mike has a punch and I have felt his punches. I mean, I have been hit before in the ring, and I’ve been hit before in sparring. But, when I sparred Mike, I was hit [laughter]. I mean, that is a championship punch Mike has, and I really believe that. With Lamont Peterson…Lamont was just really fast. I never got hurt, well, hit did hit me with three punches to the body in a row, and that third punch really landed and I felt like sitting down. But, I was on TV, you know, ESPN2, and my family was watching, and I’m not the kind of person to sit down anyway, so I basically just gritted my teeth and tried to cover up. But with Lamont, I think that would be the tougher fight for Mike out of the two. I think Mike would just have to stay on his game with Dmitriy, you know, but with Lamont I think he might have to switch up a little bit. I mean, he doesn’t hit hard, he is just quick. But, when I brought it to him [Peterson], well, I lost every round, but when I brought it to him in the first round I hit him pretty good. I think if Mike brings it to him and doesn’t allow Peterson to dictate the pace of the fight, and let’s Lamont feel his power, because Mike packs a punch, then if Mike really hits him it is over.
P&TP: Yeah. I saw that sparring session with you and Mike and it was pretty intense.
Frankel: Yeah. It was good sparring. But he definitely cracked me one time and it hurt. I mean Mike’s a big guy, and it really hurt. I mean, it made me a little dizzy. You know I’ve been hit before, even in that third round with my last fight against Dominguez, but it wasn’t like getting hit by Mike. I mean when Mike hit me in sparring it was a hard, powerful punch that rocked the hell out of me. But, you know, I’ve got a good chin and I’ve been hit hard before and just walked through it. I mean I don’t like to get hit, but I can take ‘em if I have to.
P&TP: I wanted to talk a little about your two fights with Rafael Ortiz, who passed away unexpectedly in March 2008, but I can understand if you don’t want to talk about it.
Frankel: No. It’s okay. Go ahead.
P&TP: Well, I just wanted to get your thoughts about your history with Ortiz. Could you talk a little about that?
Frankel: Yeah. When he passed away I got a phone call that in the write-ups about his death they talked about his fights with Robert Frankel, and that really hit home with me. Rafael and me became friends after our fights. You know, after I fight somebody, if I have time to talk to them, it’s really cool because we become friends. You know, like Ricardo Dominguez, I didn’t have time to talk to him so we don’t know each other; we just know each other in the ring. But I’m sure if I see Dominguez again we’ll shake hands. But, everybody that I have fought that I know – Danny Almanza, Art Medina, Nalo Leal, Mike Lucero, Rafael Ortiz before he passed – you know, all these guys that I see here and there, we’re like really cool, you know. Me and Rafael were really cool like that. Regarding specifically my fights with Ortiz, you know, I didn’t agree with the draw in our second fight, of course. I’m not that kind of person to say I got robbed or this or that. You know, if I lose, I lose. I told you that Lamont Peterson kicked my ass…I lost that fight. With Rafael Ortiz, the first fight I won a split decision and I was cool with that. But, the second fight, I beat him worse than I beat him in the first fight. I mean I honestly did, and I didn’t think the draw was warranted. I mean, Steve Mestas had never picked me up and carried my around the ring after a fight, but he did that fight. Steve is usually like, you know, kind of giving me that look like, “I don’t know about this one,” but he didn’t do that after my second fight with Ortiz. So, I felt like I won. I had a big smile on my face and then the draw kind of sunk my ship.
P&TP: Right. Okay, moving on to a more general question. Which fight would you say is your biggest victory to date? Bobby Pacquiao? Ricardo Dominguez? Is there any one victory that sticks out to you as the sweetest?
Frankel: Hmm…That’s hard because they were all good fighters, you know.
P&TP: Well, and this kind of covers the next question I was going to ask, Bobby Pacquiao was heavily favored against you.
Frankel: Oh, yeah. Definitely.
P&TP: A lot of that probably had to do with name recognition.
Frankel: Yeah. It did.
P&TP: But, was the victory any more satisfying for you because you knew you were the underdog?
Frankel: It was, but with Bobby Pacquiao, you have to take into consideration that the guy had like 14 losses. You know, he’s not Manny Pacquiao, right? He’s Manny Pacquiao’s brother, you know. If somebody fights my brother and they beat him, you know, they didn’t beat me [chuckle]. So, Bobby Pacquiao was a good name on my resume, of course. Bobby Pacquiao has been in some good fights. He’s had some good things, I think he was ranked #5 somewhere, but I think I got him at the right time and I think I schooled him in the fight. The fight was awesome. I really did good with the southpaw. I think I do really good with southpaws. I came up with my own moves, my own little tricks, you know, on my own. Not to take anything away from Steve. I got taught how to throw my hands; I got taught how to do all that. But, basically, it’s all common sense. I mean, if you train at it, it’s common sense. A lot of things that I do are just common sense, like moving my head. I move my head pretty good, I can get out of things. I mean, yes, I’ve took some shots, but you get hit in the ring. But, I’ve missed a lot of shots, too, because of my own common sense to move my head. Nobody told me how to do that. With Pacquiao, it was probably one of my best wins because of the name and because it was in San Jose and because it was in front of a whole bunch of Filipinos. They were handing me their babies after the fight. Anyway, Bobby Pacquiao is a good fighter. I don’t take anything away from any fighter; except maybe one, Gary Triano…ugh, that guy.
Honestly, my last three fights have been against some tough competition. Ramon Mantano was a good fighter who was with Top Rank, and they don’t just sign anybody. And then of course, you have Pacquiao, and we just talked about that. Now, you have Ricardo Dominguez. Dominguez is #5 in Mexico and #5 in the States. He comes in and he is training with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., and he has a great camp and good coaches. He’s a good fighter.
P&TP: Right. Give me your thoughts on your victory over Dominguez. He was a tough customer; at least it looked that way from ringside. Describe that fight to me.
Frankel: I was excited about the fight because it was on TV, and I haven’t fared well on TV, generally. Except, there was one fight on TV, the Henry Bruseles fight, where I thought I won the fight. In that fight I got cut, and I thought it should have been ruled a no-contest because it was before the end of round four.
With this fight, I was really excited because it was an opportunity at home [the fight was held in Commerce City, CO] and on TV to really show what I can do. I know I can fight. I know I am a good fighter. Of course, there are always things you can do to improve, to become better. But I know I am a good fighter and I am tough, and I can get in there with anybody and just fight. With Dominguez, I was really confident going into the ring. I was a little nervous because his record was good, you know, and he’s a good fighter. He has fought some guys. Plus, at that time, too, during this training camp for the fight, there were a lot of questions going on in my head about my current situation with Steve Mestas. It wasn’t after that; these thoughts were going on a little bit before that.
Anyway, I was kind of nervous about being in the ring with Steve with the questions going on in my head. But, the fight itself was a good fight. Dominguez is tough. He took some good shots. He gave me a shot in the third round that scared everybody I know [laughter]. They thought it was going to be an early night for me [laughter]. But, like I said, I have a tough chin. Dominguez did wobble my legs, but my head was there. I wasn’t wobbled in the head; I wasn’t blacked out or anything like that. He just hit me on the top of the head pretty good. He threw a left hook and it kind of moved me. Then, I went to roll because I knew something else was coming, but Dominguez aimed that right hand at my chest, and that is where the top of my head was. He hit a nerve or something and it just took my legs. I kind of got wobbly and I felt it. Well, I don’t like to get knocked down. I have only been knocked down, I think, only one time in my career and that was in my seventh fight or something like that. But I think that punch made me wake up again, like, “Hey, c’mon. Let’s get going here.” Then I started finding spots. I knew the uppercut was landing, so I threw that more and every time I threw the uppercut it landed. Overhand rights and then uppercuts; I was mixing them in really nice. I felt like I adjusted to what needed to be done. Also, I felt good in there. I felt in shape. I wasn’t tired. So, it was a good fight.
P&TP: It was a great fight. It probably was the most competitive fight of the evening.
Frankel: It always is with me, man [laughing]. It always is.
P&TP: Is there a loss on your record that you would relish rectifying?
Frankel: Wow [laughter]! That is a tough question [laughter]. You know I have lost 9 times and I didn’t want to lose any of those [laughter]! But, I guess if I had to pick one I would say Jesus “Chuy” Rodriguez [Frankel lost a majority decision to Rodriguez in April 2008]. That fight was a good fight. “Chuy” is a good fighter, man. I felt like I did everything I could do to win that fight. I mean, I almost knocked him out, and I don’t even have that many knockouts.
This fight meant a lot to me because Sugar Ray Leonard was there and Thomas “The Hitman” Hearns was there. They were both sitting front row. I was having a good fight, and it was an honor to be fighting in front of them. “Chuy”, I think he got the decision because of where the fight was [Highland, CA]. I mean, I just…I hate that loss. I really do. I don’t like that loss because of the fact that he was done, he got knocked out. The referee was doing a twenty count inside of ten. I mean, it was a one…look at the time keeper, a two…look at the time keeper. I mean he got knocked down before the ten second mark. The count took past the bell, which tells me that was a long count. You know, he gave him a long count. When he got up, it wasn’t like he got up and was like, “Ah, shit,” you know? He got up and fell into the ropes, looked at my coach, Steve was telling him, “Fuck you, you’re done!” He’s hanging on the ropes, he turned around and wobbled, you know, the referee should have either stopped the fight or…because he can’t stand up…
P&TP: Right, he pulled a Bute…
Frankel: Yeah, or finished the count, the way he was supposed to. I hated that, it really sucked because it was in front of some big guys that I really liked…I think I won that fight. You know, I got nine losses in my career and I’m not ashamed. I had no amateur background, so I’m not ashamed of my losses, you know. There are a couple out of the nine…I think maybe there were four or five that could have…should have…been for me.
P&TP: But the Rodriguez one, definitely is one…
Frankel: Yes…and I would fight him in a heartbeat.
P&TP: What does the future hold for you? Are there any fighters in particular, besides Rodriguez, you would like to face or “call out?” Wrapped into that, when do you hope to get into the ring next?
Frankel: Well, God willing I want to fight in July at the Mile High Throwdown IV here in Denver, I hope that will be my first fight with Delgado Promotions. That being said, I would maybe like to fight Rodriguez again if it fits into a gainful fight that means something. ‘Cause I’ve got 37 fights, it’s time for me…I’ve been beating people, I’ve been doing real good. I don’t want to get too jumpy on it. But, I want to get to a point where I am fighting for a title of some sort and getting in there with somebody who has a name…I don’t know who.
I would actually like to fight, like, a Juan Diaz. In fact, I would actually like to fight…I thought about it… I think Anthony Peterson is a 135 pounder and I want to fight there, I think that would be a good fight for me. He’s nothing like his brother, he’s not fast, and he’s just like me. He comes forward and I think that would be a good fight. He can hit he has power, he but I think I can beat him. I’ve watched him fight a few times…I think I can take Anthony Peterson. Maybe I’m jumping a little bit high here, but I think I can take him. I have my goals set at the top…we’re both in there together. Me, him, Juan Diaz, and three others, or something like that, in the country at 135lbs.
P&TP: I know you are now being trained by Shann Vilhauer. How is that going and what are you guys working in on in the gym?
Frankel: It’s going good. I feel good and somebody told me that there would never be that chemistry with Steve Mestas. I feel like there is chemistry because it’s not like Shann came to me and said, “I need to change everything,” he came to me and was like, “You’re top 20, you’re a good fighter.” What do I need to change? I don’t need to change nothing. I’ve got 4 knockouts in 37 fights…instead of making it a long night, let’s make it a short night. Maybe I can knock some people out. I’m a little square when I fight, I come forward when I fight and I like my style, I really do. I still can come forward, but he’s helping pushing my shoulder back a little, I’m getting a little more narrow, he’s got my feet a little different, in a better place. Where I feel better moving, too, when I am square now I don’t feel so open, but I feel good. Like I said before, he’s not trying to change nothing about me.
I just want to put on the record, too, that Shann and Delgado Promotions have not tried to use me and put me in the ring as a free sparring partner for Mike [Alvarado]. They have not mentioned me sparring Mike, not once, since I’ve been here. They have not pushed that in my head, there’s nothing like that. So, Shann and Delgado Promotions to me, have been real good. They haven’t said anything bad about anybody, even if someone says something bad about them. Previous people, not saying anything bad, but that’s basically their drive of the day…let’s talk some shit.
P&TP: Can you tell the readers of Pugilism and the Pen about your history with Steve Mestas and Airtight Boxing?
Frankel: My first pro fight was in September 2003 and my last fight with Steve Mestas was March 7, 2009. It’s a long road man, you know. Steve Mestas was a good trainer to me; I don’t take anything away from Steve at all. In fact, I hold nothing against Steve. We had a good six years, we had a good time. We had some short notice fights we jumped on, but all and all it was good. It was kind of crazy. Sporadic training, no schedules, and that’s the way Steve was. In my life, as you can tell, I mean when I leave here I have to be someplace else. But, yeah, six years, it was a good run. Me and Steve had a good run. I wish the best for Steve, I really do. And his fighters are still my friends. Well, some of them are still my friends. I’m finding that out. People I care about, people that have been in my life. I’m a caring person. But when it comes to money and stuff like that it kind of changes some.
P&TP: What made you decide to part ways with Mestas? Was it any one thing in particular or was it an accumulation of things?
Frankel: At first it was an accumulation of personal things. I’ve got a lot going on in my life and I still try to fight and train and I did good in my last fight. Me and Steve trained a lot together and it just felt like there was, the past 6, 7, 8, months with Steve there was some separation…”this is it,” kind of thing. This is kind of where we were at. Steve coming in late to sparring, not being on time. When we first started that was the main thing he told me, “Be on time.” I would be on time. If I was gonna be late I would call him, you know. Then near the end there, it wasn’t his thing. I would get there and train, train, train. Steve would say, “Oh, hit the bags, do something.” I kind of felt like I was training myself, you know. I mean, he would give me mitts and stuff, we would go to 24 Hour Fitness at night and do my conditioning, but what really are you doing? There was nothing being done by him. Along with that, spending time with Steve in the truck, Steve would take me everywhere. I would always get to the gym myself, but 24 Hour Fitness was late so he would come pick me up and drop me off. But a long time before all this, he was always talking negative about people and I don’t think he means it bad, I just think he wants to be the best at what he does. And I think he is good at what he does; I think he does it [talks negatively about people] to make it golden for himself. At the beginning, I was just shaking my head saying, “Oh, yeah, really?” and stuff, but near the end I got sick of hearing it. I got sick of hearing how bad people are…people I know.
Chris Morris is one of them. Chris Morris is my friend; Chris Morris has a son that when I see him, he makes my day. He’d [Steve Mestas] say things about him [Chris Morris], about Mike [Alvarado], the Delgados, the other promotions, people he would talk and be cool to and then you would turn around…So, I kind of got fed up with that. I was already having a battle with my whole personal life. I got fed up with it. I was gonna talk to him about it, we were gonna have a discussion at my terms though. Because it’s been on his terms, this whole training thing has been on his terms. It’s always been on his time, “Oh, I can’t do that, you gotta go this time, you gotta be there, you gotta call into work today…” I would miss work, I would sacrifice things. So, when I came to Steve Mestas and told him – well, I didn’t even come to him – he felt like something was going on. He could tell. And so he asked me [what was going on], and I said, “Well, we need to talk.”
Well, Steve Mestas told me to get up and go right there to his house and talk to him. And I told him, “No, man. We can’t do that. We need to sit down somewhere and have a talk because it’s not going to be you telling me what to do. It’s not going to be you telling me to get over there and talk to you so you could bitch me out. It’s not going to be a bitch-out session.” So, I didn’t go meet him and from that point on it was on the phone with him basically telling me that everything that I have from my boxing, in my life, was from him. He told me that I didn’t sacrifice nothin’ for him. I mean, I sacrificed everything for myself, didn’t I? I did. I did sacrifice everything for myself, but at the same time I was sacrificing things in order to keep him there; in order to keep him happy; in order to keep him where I needed him to be.
So, I talked to Chris Morris, who was a friend of mine. We had a friendship that I thought was really good. I could talk to him about anything, you know? I’ve sent him numerous emails before, on his website [www.rockymountainboxing.com], and I would just let him know what was up with me. “Hey man….I’m doing good,” you know. And he would be on his website saying that Rob’s doing good, you know. So, it felt good having a friend like that. So I went to him because I thought I could trust him, and I did trust him. We sat down for 2-and-a-half hours…
P&TP: When was this? Not exactly the date, but do you recall the timeframe when all of this transpired?
Frankel: Let’s see….this would have been probably around the beginning of April 2009.
P&TP: Okay. I just wanted to get a timeframe so the readers of this interview could place it chronologically. Okay, sorry for interrupting you. Please, continue.
Frankel: Okay, well, me, Chris Morris, Eric Duran, and my friend, Terry Hernandez sat down to talk. All of this was before I came to Delgado Promotions. Okay, so when I talked to him [Chris Morris], I was telling him what I was feeling…about schedules, about things like that, about all kinds of things. And Chris Morris was agreeing with me, and then it got turned into a money thing. We got to talking about, you know, money. They asked me, “How much money have you made? How much? You should be sitting pretty right now with all the fights you’ve been having and all the fighters you’ve been fighting. You should be doing alright.” So, Chris Morris is asking me these questions, and I tell him, “I don’t know. Steve [Mestas] takes 33%.” And Chris Morris says, “Wow, man. That’s high end. For that you should be getting everything…a publicist, you should get everything you need for 33.3%…I mean, you should get a trainer, a manager, all that for 33%.”
Then, he [Chris Morris] started explaining to me that Steve Mestas has been playing me. Chris Morris was telling me that Steve Mestas is not supposed to be my manager, and that’s why he doesn’t sign as my manager on the contracts. But, he “plays” my manager and he’s not supposed to be my manager and promoter at the same time. It’s all part of the “Muhammad Ali Act.” Chris Morris explained this to me, and he told me all of these things, man. He stared telling me how Steve was getting extra money on top of what I was paying him. And…it put me in tears. You know…I was crying man because I felt so sad. I was noticeably crying so I had to go to the bathroom because I’m not a crier, man. You know? I’m a fighter.
So, I took what Chris Morris said and it helped me. With everything else like the scheduling, and the negativity coming out of Steve Mestas, and everything like that, and then hearing that from Chris Morris. So, I asked Chris Morris, you know, “What can I do?” Chris Morris told me, “I will advise you. I’m not going to sign on as your manager, but I will advise you and help you.” So, I said, “First things first. Where am I going to train?” And Chris says, “I’ll talk to Trevor Wittman.” Trevor is a local trainer who has trained some good fighters. Trevor trained Verno Phillips, Manny Perez, Larry Gonzalez, you know, he’s had some good fighters. So, I took that [what Chris Morris said] and jumped for joy, you know, because I love Trevor. Me and Trevor have a friendship, you know, and I still think that we do.
So, I went to train with him and that day was an exciting day for me because I’ve never trained with anybody else before like that. I mean, Trevor was just showing me things, and telling me how excited he was about things. And that was the one night that we trained, and Trevor told me I could have a locker. So, I went and bought a lock at Walgreen’s next to gym, and I put my stuff in the locker, and was like, “Cool. Yeah. Right on.” Then Trevor was telling me, “Man, we can do things. I’m excited. Just being here tonight make me excited.”
I was really happy, you know? Steve Mestas caught wind of it [that Frankel trained with Trevor Wittman], and I had told Steve. But, Steve Mestas got a phone call from Trevor after we trained, and Trevor told Steve, you know, “I just trained Rob tonight…”. Well, I didn’t hear anything from Trevor for about two days, but it was the weekend, so I thought, “Whatever. Cool…”. But, I tried to call him and he didn’t answer. Then, I got a text message from Steve saying, “Hahaha. I was losing faith in you white people. But, nah, it’s cool. Trevor huh? Shoot.”
That Monday I got a text message from Trevor. It said, “Rob, I’m not training boxers anymore. I’m letting you and Manny [Perez] go, and out of respect for Steve Mestas, I’m not going to call you.” And this was from a friend.
So, Steve Mestas got to Trevor and you know, whatever. I already knew from the outset that Trevor was thinking about not training boxers anymore; that he was getting sick of the game. But, he decided to take me on with Manny [Perez], he said, “Just to fill Verno’s [Verno Phillips] spot. I like you. You’re a good fighter and I have always looked up to you.” All these nice things, you know. And that kind of hurt me [when Trevor sent him a text message saying he would not train Frankel] because I went somewhere that was neutral ground. I thought that Steve [Mestas], Trevor [Wittman], and Chris [Morris], we could all do something together. Maybe I could have a better training regimen, with a schedule, you know, go to Trevor’s gym…he’s got a calendar up with the date, time, what you are doing in training, how many rounds of this and how many rounds of that, etc. And, I like that. I love that. You know, I didn’t have that [with Steve Mestas]. Steve would just say, “Uh, go over there and hit the bag, go over there and do this, go over there and do that…” So, I felt like it was a good decision [to train with Trevor]. Kind of a neutral ground type thing.
But, I’m hearing [rumors] out there that I just “ran to Delgado’s, the worst enemy of Steve Mestas.” Man, that’s not what happened at all. That is clearly not what happened because I went to Chris Morris – who is now recanting everything that he said to me. Now, I don’t hold it against Chris because he has a vested interest with Steve Mestas now, with Manny Perez, who is now with Steve Mestas. Who knows what’s going to happen, you know? I wish Manny Perez the best, you know, because me and Manny Perez became friends, and I hope that we can always stay friends no matter what other people say or do. Manny Perez is my friend; at least to me he is a friend.
I came to Delgado’s and talked to them. The first thing that I noticed was that there was no bad-mouthing of people who had bad-mouthed them. They [Delgado's] basically just sloughed it off, and didn’t say anything bad about anybody. I was happy about that; it was a relief. Then they started telling me about what they have, what they offer, and what kind of things they would do. They never, ever, ever said that I would just be Mike Alvarado’s sparring partner. They never jumped up for joy saying, “Oh, Mike’s got free sparring.” I think that’s a dumb rumor that people are saying because there has been no sparring with Mike. They haven’t been pressing it on me. I would spar with Mike, anyway. You know? I’m not going to turn down good sparring like that. Why would I? That would be stupid. But, I wouldn’t become his [Alvarado's] punching bag, either, since I am not that kind of person anyway. Mike is a great fighter. I give Mike a lot of respect. I really do. I look up to Mike, as a fighter.
I just hope that people can look at what I have done, with open eyes, and not listen to just one side of the story because there are two sides to every story. And I have my side and they have their side. So…and they have their right to their story, just like I have a right to my side of the story.
I have no hard feelings, but there is animosity out there; there’s a lot of animosity going on right now. I’ve found out a lot of things. I’ve found out found friend from foe. It’s been a really cleansing thing for me. It’s been painful and hurtful, but at the same time, it has been really, really good for me because there’s no negativity around me right now. The people who were my friends and aren’t now, well, I’m sorry for them because that’s their loss. Anybody who is my true friend, they know me. I am a good person, and I am a great friend. I hold everybody that is in my life up, and I don’t care what you do, if you’re a friend to me, you know, you’re up here [motions with his hands towards the ceiling] with me. If I can do anything for you, I’ll do it.
So, all that being said, I am here at Delgado’s now, and I feel like they [Delgado Promotions] are holding me up. So, I feel good.
P&TP: What are you hoping to get out of your move to Delgado Promotions? Why did you decide that Delgado Promotions was who you wanted to sign with?
Frankel: Well, I fought on Delgado’s show and that is what drew me here. My last fight here, that show was awesome [Mile High Throwdown III, March 7, 2009 in Commerce City, CO]! It was a good turnout, Top Rank was there, and I believe that they put on a good, well-organized show. I’m not saying anything bad about Steve Mestas, but sometimes I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off at some of his shows trying to help him out. It’s unorganized. I felt good about that [the organization of Delgado's] and good with the way that Delgado’s treated me. Everything was great, and there was no negative stuff going on, and I felt good about it and I really liked it. So, I like being here [at Delgado's] and I am glad for the decision I made. Even though it’s causing a lot of the things going on right now, but the dust will settle.
P&TP: Is there anything else you would like the readers to know about the situation? Is there anything you want to say to all the Rob Frankel fans out there?
Frankel: I’m still “Red Hot.” I’m still Rob Frankel. I just hope that people who like me as a fighter, and people who like me as a person, keep in mind that I’m still that fighter and that I am still that person. Nothing has changed about me. I’m the same person. I didn’t just get a screw popped out of my head and now I’m just making irrational decisions. There are a lot of things that happened; there’s a lot of things that have gone on, and I tried to work on it, I tried talking to people. I tried making things the way it should be and I feel like other people took it the way it went.
All in all, I love every one of the fans that come to the fights and cheer for me. I will always put on a good fight for them. That’s what it’s all about. Without them, I’m not here. The fans are my friends…any of them. If they walk up to me, I may not know you, but if you’re a fan and you come up to me and you shake my hand, you’re my friend. And, if I see you at the next show, I’ll do the same thing. You never know…you might come hang out with me [laughter].
P&TP: Well, thanks for spending all this time with Pugilism & The Pen, Rob. Good luck in the ring.
Frankel: Thanks, man. This was fun.
